For as long as he has been in elected office, Senator Bernie Sanders of Vermont has warned that the nation’s richest people have amassed too much wealth and power.
Now, President Trump sits in the White House and Elon Musk, the world’s richest person, is presiding over the firing of thousands of federal workers.
For Mr. Sanders, there is no joy in being right. He remains upset that more Democratic politicians do not seem to share his conviction that the American political system requires a radical overhaul — a sentiment that he thinks pulsed through the country last year and contributed to Mr. Trump’s victory.
On Friday and Saturday, Mr. Sanders, the longtime independent, plans to hold campaign-style rallies in Omaha and Iowa City. He hopes the two events will pressure the House Republicans who represent those areas to break from Mr. Trump when they vote next month on the federal budget.
Mr. Sanders discussed his plans, along with the Democratic Party’s current predicament and who, if anyone, is articulating an effective message against Mr. Trump. The interview has been lightly edited and condensed.
You’ve been warning about an impending oligarchy for years, and it seems as if the situation has gotten worse. Why do you think that is, and why hasn’t the country heeded the message that you have preached?
I’m not so sure that the country has not been heeding the message. You know, I ran for president taking on the corporate world, the Republican Party and the entire Democratic establishment, and we started with no name recognition and nothing, and we ended up winning 23 states. So I don’t think people were ignoring me.
Then there is the political establishment, which is another story. And I think that, for many reasons, the Democratic Party, especially, has kind of turned its back on the needs of working families at a time when so many of our people are living paycheck to paycheck. And the results of the election, I think, tell that tale.
Do you think the Democratic Party has learned any lessons about how to present itself since the election or since Trump’s inauguration?
Taking on people with unbelievable wealth, in a corrupt political system where people like Elon Musk and others will threaten any Republican or any Democrat who fights for working people, with massive amounts of money in a primary, is difficult.
I think Democrats are trying. But what Trump has capitalized on is a simple reality that is true — and that is our system is broken. And I think that many of his repairs will only make it worse. But the system is broken. And I think Democrats have got to understand that we can’t — they can’t — protect the status quo, but have got to deal with the reality that it’s a broken system. We’ve got to begin in an aggressive way in addressing the needs of the working class, which is really struggling.
Who do you think is doing a good job of articulating an effective message in opposition to Trump?
I don’t want to get into personalities. There are a number of people in the House, the Senate and elsewhere who are doing a really good job. But I think the point is, it’s not good enough to attack Trump’s policies of tax breaks for the rich and cuts to Medicaid and other desperately needed programs. It’s not good enough to attack his authoritarianism.
When you have a corrupt political system that allows Musk and other multibillionaires in both political parties to contribute huge amounts of money, the system is broken, period. And you can’t patch it up a little here and a little there.
Do you hear anyone else saying that?
Well, you tell me.
I’m asking you.
I certainly do not hear enough discussion on the point that the system is, in fact, broken and needs fundamental changes, not just patching it up.
You’re going to Iowa City and Omaha, which is next to Iowa. You’ve said your current Senate term will probably be your last. Have you totally ruled out running for president again in 2028?
In case you haven’t heard, Iowa is no longer first on the Democratic primary list. You know why I’m going to Iowa? Why am I going to Iowa?
Are you asking me why you’re going to Iowa? You’re the one who’s going to Iowa.
But why? You’re suggesting that it’s ——
I’m just asking you if you have ruled out running for president again.
I am 83 years old. I do not think I’m going to be running for president.
Right now, to my mind, the most important thing that those of us who are in opposition to Trump’s tax breaks for the rich and cuts to Medicaid in education — the best thing that we could do is to win over at least two Republicans who are going to go back in their districts and say: “You know what? I’m not voting to give huge tax breaks to the rich and cut desperately needed health care programs.”
There are about 15 House districts in America where Republicans won with very slim margins. One of them is in the Omaha area. One of them is in the Iowa City area. I and others will be traveling to those communities in order to make sure that the people in those districts understand what is at stake and do what they can to make sure that their congresspeople respond to the needs of the working class of this country.
You were one of the people who stood by President Biden until the very end — even when there were calls across the party for him to get out of the race. I wonder if now you think that maybe he should not have run for re-election or shouldn’t have stayed in the race so long. Do you have any regrets about the position you took?
The reason I stood behind President Biden is that he was supporting an extremely progressive agenda, an agenda which, in fact, did speak to the needs of working people in this country, an agenda which in many respects I supported. And I think that’s exactly what the Democratic Party has got to do right now.
I’d like to finish with a question about Trump’s cabinet. Tulsi Gabbard, who was recently confirmed as the director of national intelligence, supported you in your first presidential campaign. Now, she’s a Republican serving in Trump’s cabinet. What do you think happened with her?
I’m not going to speculate what happened to Tulsi. I have not actually chatted with Tulsi in many years.
Thank you. Have fun on your trip.
Thank you very much. Bye-bye.
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